There's not nothing to this but it's not all a big woopsie of innocent naive confusion. there's a reason that straight women are traditionally suspicious and discerning about men who approach them and are often trying to suss out whether or not he's a fuckboy before sleeping with him. And there's a reason why fuckboys traditionally learn to conceal their fuckboy status, either from just the women they're trying to sleep with or from themselves as well. It's highly beneficial for a fuckboy to be able to believe of himself, "oh, sure, yeah, I totally like her for real, I could absolutely maybe date her, let's just see where it goes after she sleeps with me"
before coming into the community, I was getting a PhD in evolutionary psychology under David Buss. I deliberately obscured the mechanism in order to make a quick diagnosis.
that im well aware this isn’t all just a naive confusion? But perhaps you aren’t referring to adaptive errors, but rather pointing at some type of social thing
Hmm--Im not totally sure what I meant, and I'm sure you are well aware, so I suppose most of what I meant is that this description of how male and female mating incentives function struck me as not especially resonant, perhaps because it's so simplified?
I'm glad you got a PhD in order to rigorously prove this, but it really boggles my mind how women don't see this at all. I've known this since I was 13, it's a fairly painful lesson you learn when you're average looking as a guy. It makes me feel very invisible when women reject me, tell me things like "you're such a nice guy", proceed to date men that are nothing like me, and then complain when the guy inevitably dumps him. It's difficult to have female friends because of this dynamic. It's actually pretty insulting and its hard to not take it personally.
I had picked this up on my own early in life - as early as the pre-sexual “hold hands on the playground” phase - so it’s weird for me how women can’t notice it as well.
Sex is easy to get. Dates are still easy to get. Relationships are harder. Commitment is even harder. Keeping his interest long term is even harder than that.
Both sides may deceive themselves about how likely the man is to pursue a long term relationship. The consequences are worse for the woman.
A woman tends to feel that having sex with a man gives her a claim on him. That is no longer the case. There’s no prospect of a shotgun wedding. Direct action by male relatives would land them in jail. Paternity suits are rare. Repeated disappointments must have some effect.
Romance literature, aka female narrative porn, features the magic box fantasy. It’s bad to buy into it in real life.
I think this article is pretty accurate. Although another mechanism people talk about as giving women a false sense of their attractiveness is that most women who put up dating profiles get hundreds of messages immediately. Most are low-quality (both the message and the man behind it) and some men sending messages would not actually date her. But still the sheer mass of attention must have an effect.
Nothing about this is new. Men have been willing to have sex with women they won't commit to for millions of years and I think evolution has that under control. This is why women generally are willing to have a one night stand just with only the most desirable men -- exactly as you would expect from an optimal reproductive strategy (for high enough quality genes you take the risk of reproducing without a pair bond).
What the internet has done is hugely reduce the difficulty in finding those really desirable men while actually making it arguably harder to find good pair bonding prospects. That's because it's easy to evaluate the former on an app but what makes someone work as a potential pair bond is a lot about their interest in you, vouching by common friends and subtle signals you just can't get in an app.
Worse, the equilibrium shifts on the apps. As it becomes harder to find a true long term relationship guys looking for such become less common and guys choose a more high volume strategy,. This makes putting in the effort to actually get to know someone even less appealing and round and round you go.
There's not nothing to this but it's not all a big woopsie of innocent naive confusion. there's a reason that straight women are traditionally suspicious and discerning about men who approach them and are often trying to suss out whether or not he's a fuckboy before sleeping with him. And there's a reason why fuckboys traditionally learn to conceal their fuckboy status, either from just the women they're trying to sleep with or from themselves as well. It's highly beneficial for a fuckboy to be able to believe of himself, "oh, sure, yeah, I totally like her for real, I could absolutely maybe date her, let's just see where it goes after she sleeps with me"
before coming into the community, I was getting a PhD in evolutionary psychology under David Buss. I deliberately obscured the mechanism in order to make a quick diagnosis.
What community are you referring too?
What do you mean by that?
that im well aware this isn’t all just a naive confusion? But perhaps you aren’t referring to adaptive errors, but rather pointing at some type of social thing
Hmm--Im not totally sure what I meant, and I'm sure you are well aware, so I suppose most of what I meant is that this description of how male and female mating incentives function struck me as not especially resonant, perhaps because it's so simplified?
This is definitely true but Paola still communicated the best simplified version
You really like to say “fuckboy”, eh?
Sorry I fuckboyed your mom it will happen again
I'm glad you got a PhD in order to rigorously prove this, but it really boggles my mind how women don't see this at all. I've known this since I was 13, it's a fairly painful lesson you learn when you're average looking as a guy. It makes me feel very invisible when women reject me, tell me things like "you're such a nice guy", proceed to date men that are nothing like me, and then complain when the guy inevitably dumps him. It's difficult to have female friends because of this dynamic. It's actually pretty insulting and its hard to not take it personally.
*dumps her, my bad
I had picked this up on my own early in life - as early as the pre-sexual “hold hands on the playground” phase - so it’s weird for me how women can’t notice it as well.
Sex is easy to get. Dates are still easy to get. Relationships are harder. Commitment is even harder. Keeping his interest long term is even harder than that.
Both sides may deceive themselves about how likely the man is to pursue a long term relationship. The consequences are worse for the woman.
A woman tends to feel that having sex with a man gives her a claim on him. That is no longer the case. There’s no prospect of a shotgun wedding. Direct action by male relatives would land them in jail. Paternity suits are rare. Repeated disappointments must have some effect.
Romance literature, aka female narrative porn, features the magic box fantasy. It’s bad to buy into it in real life.
I think this article is pretty accurate. Although another mechanism people talk about as giving women a false sense of their attractiveness is that most women who put up dating profiles get hundreds of messages immediately. Most are low-quality (both the message and the man behind it) and some men sending messages would not actually date her. But still the sheer mass of attention must have an effect.
Nothing about this is new. Men have been willing to have sex with women they won't commit to for millions of years and I think evolution has that under control. This is why women generally are willing to have a one night stand just with only the most desirable men -- exactly as you would expect from an optimal reproductive strategy (for high enough quality genes you take the risk of reproducing without a pair bond).
What the internet has done is hugely reduce the difficulty in finding those really desirable men while actually making it arguably harder to find good pair bonding prospects. That's because it's easy to evaluate the former on an app but what makes someone work as a potential pair bond is a lot about their interest in you, vouching by common friends and subtle signals you just can't get in an app.
Worse, the equilibrium shifts on the apps. As it becomes harder to find a true long term relationship guys looking for such become less common and guys choose a more high volume strategy,. This makes putting in the effort to actually get to know someone even less appealing and round and round you go.
https://melaniedixon.substack.com/p/women-can-afford-to-be-picky?r=kut7i&utm_medium=ios
If "all of us" means the women in your personal social environment that is plausible.
Social circles are highly selected for commonalities. Would the type of woman without this understanding fit in with yours?
If you’re getting multiple data for dating points that are in-fact merely data for sex points then your data model is not properly calibrated.
Your word choice of many men instead of nearly all men suggests you’re not fully grasping this.
Men are willing to have sex with women who are very much below their dating standards if the effort is very low and the convenience is high.
Making a man work for it is a kind of hurdle that indicates a man’s willingness to date as opposed to merely having sex.